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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2015 11:22 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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Like all the manufactures they like to share as many bits between models as they can. If you can get more power from the bigger carbs why not :)


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:57 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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If I just getting it running fairly decently that'll do for me, considering the state it was in, photos to follow.

Over in the States they've done plenty to these engines. They used to race the CB160's, which is essentially the same unit. More recently, a couple of long threads have been running on the 'dotheton' and 'hondatwins' forums. young lad named Zeke ( with a lot of help from his Dad etc ) trying to get his CB200 to break the 100 mph barrier. An awful of work to get a few extra horsepower, as Honda had pretty much got it right in the first place. Valves and porting pretty much OK, their changes included race ignition, bigger carbs with velocity stacks, megaphone exhausts, mild cam changes, higher compression ratio, lightened valve train etc plus many hours on the flowbench and dyno.

Here's a pic of the lad, along with the Bostrom brothers.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Here's the CB200 engine as delivered.

Image

Cases very corroded.

Image

Unlike my 175 engine, which had obviously never been apart, this 200 engine had been attacked by a spanner muppet. All case screws and bolts variously mangled. Both pistons had one or more rings missing. :eek

Oil had been drained at some point in prehistory, then internals left to rust. Gudgeon pins were seized into the rods, used a long bolt and sockets to push these out. Advance mechanism rusted onto the end of the camshaft, took a gear puller to get that off. Otherwise, came apart OK using impact driver, proper JIS screwdrivers, and my new electric impact wrench. :D

Cases full of filth. One of the oil separators (windage plates in US speak) was lying loose in the bottom of the case, looks like muppet had pulled the retaining pin. Plate was bent where it had clearly got caught by the rotating crank. Both plates were very rusty.

Image

Oil spinner (closest thing these engines have to a filter) was full of crap and aluminium filings.

Image

Gear selectors, crank shaft and gear cluster all covered in rust.

Image

Image

Rusty gears in cleaned top case, with my spare CB175 kick start shaft in place, CB200 one snapped off flush with case, more muppetry.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:33 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Wife is out this morning, so I have the oven set at 220c, baking the paint onto my freshly rebored cylinder block. Extraction on max, all doors open.

I've already cleaned, painted and baked the rest of the cases, also reassembled the bottom end of the motor.

Cleaned, before paint (Simoniz engine enamel, as recommended by Yambits website)

Image

Image

Painted and baked.

Image

Image

Partly assembled

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:36 am 
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Knob Magnet
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richard pitman wrote:
Wife is out this morning, so I have the oven set at 220c, baking the paint onto my freshly rebored cylinder block. Extraction on max, all doors open.



:rollin :rollin :clap :clap

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:39 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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That rusty gear selector

Before

Image

After

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 10:50 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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The cam chain and tensioners were obviously knackered, or had never been adjusted, as shown by these grooves worn in cylinder head, also oil spinner full of aluminium filings.

Image

Image

Larger tensioner wheel was also very hard and brittle, so that was replaced using a new pattern part from David Silvers. Smaller toothed wheel unobtainable, so replaced by fancy part from Capellini racing parts. Also fitted a new DID endless cam chain.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:09 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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370steve wrote:
richard pitman wrote:
Wife is out this morning, so I have the oven set at 220c, baking the paint onto my freshly rebored cylinder block. Extraction on max, all doors open.



:rollin :rollin :clap :clap


What I hadn't realised is that the cast iron liners would drop out of the finned alloy jacket when I picked the cylinder up, using the oven gloves. :eek

A bit of juggling with very hot metal later, and I got the liners back in and left it all to cool down. Seems to have gone back together OK. I guess that when (if) the engine runs I'll be able to retorque the head nuts and pull it all back into line, if required.

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:23 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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A bit more progress today. Got the rings onto the pistons, and the pistons onto the rods.

Image

Gaskets and O rings in place, pistons supported on home made copies of tools shown in Honda FSM

Image

Image

Cylinder dropped into place quite easily with those piston supports in place, much easier than the last time I did this.

Image

Head dropped into place to keep dirt from falling into the engine.

Image

Had to stop work at this point. I'm waiting for a cam bearing to arrive from CMS in the Netherlands. It should have been here today, but looking at the UPS tracking it had obviously got held up in the nonsense at the Channel Tunnel

'Round 'em up, put 'em in a field, and bomb the bastards', as Kenny Everetts US General used to say.

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:25 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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Might be in for a bit of a wait if the news is anything to go by
Bloody annoying when your waiting for parts.


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:46 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Oddly enough, the parts from CMS arrived the next day, excellent service by UPS, who kept me informed by email every step of the way.

Not that I'm in any rush for the CB200 engine. Yesterday, I clocked up 60 miles or so on the 175, which took the overall mileage since the rebuild to over 1000 miles. And it hasn't blown up yet, in fact it runs better and better.

I was sat waiting at a railway crossing yesterday. Guy gets on of the car behind me, taps me on the shoulder. Thinking the worst, wondering what I'd done to offend him.

However, turned out that he just wanted a look at the bike, commented on how well it went, I'd given it full welly through the gears leaving a 30 limit, might even have touched 65 !

He had a Honda Benly, said how this one took him back etc.

Happy days ...

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:18 pm 
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Knob Magnet
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:clap :clap :clap

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 11, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Spoke too soon :(

Hadn't ridden the 175 for a couple of days, went out on the Hornet instead.

( Funny thing, I usually come back with a grin after riding the 175, whereas I came back feeling a bit guilty after riding the Hornet like a twat on Sunday :Bad :o )

Anyway, took some stuff down to the lockup garage yesterday afternoon, thought I could smell petrol. Found the 175 sitting in a spreading puddle, fuel pipe linking the two halves of the saddle tank had split. Annoying, because I did fit all new fuel hoses when I did the rebuild, guess this tubing wasn't as advertised. I'm running it on the 97 octane Tesco Momentum fuel, not because it needs high octane, far from it, just assumed there'd be less ethanol in this stuff.

Whatever it is, it's bloody good paint stripper. :Bang

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:07 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Another encounter of the ' I used to have one of those ' kind.

Chap at the garden centre yesterday.

" I used to have one of those "

" Except mine was the 125 version "

" And it was a Yamaha "

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:11 am 
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Hornet Lord
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richard pitman wrote:
Another encounter of the ' I used to have one of those ' kind.

Chap at the garden centre yesterday.

" I used to have one of those "

" Except mine was the 125 version "

" And it was a Yamaha "

:Bang :Bang :Bang WTH


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:39 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Well, it's been a year since it emerged on to UK roads as a 'K' registration bike.

Took it for its second MOT today, passed without problem, and some nice comments from the guys in the bike shop, which is now a Yamaha main dealer.

Had a good look at the range of new Yamaha naked bikes, twins and triples. They are so fugly, they look like unfinished Airfix kits. Might be nice to ride, but aesthetically :puke

Nicest bike in the shop was a 2011 Honda CB 1100, retro style naked 4 cylinder.

One of these:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 10:23 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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That's good its still going strong.
A lot of the new Yamaha's look like aliens!
They have a new version of the Honda CB1100 coming out with more retro styling this year


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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I haven't posted in this thread for a while, I've been over on the Honda Twins website.

http://www.hondatwins.net/forums/1-project-logs/42515-my-cl-cb-175-rebuild-thread.html

I never did get around to fitting that CB200 engine. Instead, I bought yet another 175 engine and rebuilt and fitted that, done well over a 1000 miles on that engine now.

Recently fitted a rebuilt / resprayed ( by me) CB tank and seat, to replace the CL items, also a UK spec rear light, various shiny internal and external bits, list goes on for ever, see thread above.

And here it ( I don't assign a gender to my bikes 8o ) it is ..

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:05 am 
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Hornet Lord
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Looks really nice.
Do you plan to fit the 200 I. The future?


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:01 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Love the CB 175 - absolutely immaculate :clap :D

Quote:
Nicest bike in the shop was a 2011 Honda CB 1100, retro style naked 4 cylinder.


Yeah, I saw one of these at my local Honda shop - I was really impressed - It was a really faithful modern rendering of a 70's superbike - the attention to detail was really something.


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 11:04 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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bud wrote:
Looks really nice.
Do you plan to fit the 200 I. The future?


It'd be a shame not to run it at some point. But the two engines do have a fair number of parts in common, so I suspect I'll probably hybridise the three motors.

First CL175 engine I rebuilt is currently sat on my bench, was running well when I pulled it, engine number matches the frame and V5. Fitted with a brand new CB200 oil pump, higher output than the 175 item.

Current 175 engine (both 175s are now bored out to 180 ) has the higher output Cb200 generator fitted, also CB200 rubber inlet manifolds.

CB200 engine has a better cylinder head design, and will fit onto a 175, better oil pump as mentioned above, and a higher 5th gear. All those bits could go into one of the 175 motors.

CB200 crank, pistons and barrels WILL fit the 175, with some case modifications, but requires different clutch basket and primary gears, which I have. Also has to run the CB200 cam, because the cam chain sprockets are different on the 175 and 200 cranks. So it would be possible to make my original 175 engine into a 200 (actually a few cc more than 200 with the 1mm overbore), keeping the original engine number.

Real world power is no different between 175 and 200, I've ridden both back to back in the day. Honda claim 17bhp for the 200 and 20bhp for the higher revving 175.

Maybe if I get bored this winter ...

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2017 9:50 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Remember this ?

Image

Morphed into this, constantly adding new shiny bits to it.

Image

But it would be boring to leave it alone, so I'm playing with the original exhaust pipes. The silencer box has rotted out, and the pipes need to be re chromed.

Because of the way the original silencer fits around the rear shock, it's not simple to replace the can with something else. So I sourced a stainless steel Y piece off the bay, plus various stainless bends. After much hacking and filing I came up with this piece, which I got TIG welded locally.

Image

Exhaust now doglegs around the rear shock, enabling a conventional silencer to be grafted on. Can in the photo is a Triumph Scrambler 900 oem pipe. I think many of these are taken off at the dealer and swapped for something fruitier. However, on my little engine it sounds quite nice.

Image

It's a bit too long ! I have made up a hanger bracket out of stainless strip, not fitted this yet, or had a test ride. I did try fitting a stubby pit bike can, but it was much too loud.

A loud pipe on a slow bike is simply embarrassing ...

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 9:32 am 
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True Horneteer
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Looking great.

Easily in 'Show' condition :D


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:47 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Digital cameras do tend to flatter, but thanks ..

Got the grinder out yesterday, cut down the spare can, also trimmed off redundant heat shield brackets. Not fitted it yet, need to test ride the bike on the unmolested can, see how it runs.

I'm hoping that the circumcised can won't be radically loud, all the internal baffling is still in place, just a larger outlet.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 8:55 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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I did get the hanger straps made up and fitted, nice firm job.

Stainless steel strip is some tough stuff, takes some effort to cut and drill it, gave my Aldi pillar drill a good work out.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:14 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Took it for a run today, went very well. Smooth, quieter than the pair of DS pattern pipes I'd fitted. Hasn't strangled it all, might actually go a little bit better, idles easily and revs to 10K through the gears.

Only downside is the heat. Burned my hand on the silencer can when I got back from my ride. I'd assumed that it would be double skinned and cool, like the OEM Hornet can, not hot enough to stick my skin to it. :eek

May be due the Triumph catalytic converter in the front section of the can. Job for the hole saw ....

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 9:07 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Oh crap.

I've just been reading up about catalytic converters. I just thought it would sit passively there, not doing very much.

However, I've been reading accounts of folks whose (car) cats started glowing red hot and / or melting. This was due to excess fuel getting to the catalyst, usually caused by a faulty 02 sensor on a fuel injected (closed loop) system.

So muggins here has bolted an exhaust from an injected Triumph onto an old carburetted Honda, which I know is running quite rich. So I'm assuming that the catalyst is burning off the excess fuel and overheating as a result.

So I'm either going to have to look for an alternative silencer, or try and dig out as much of the catalyst matrix as I can. :Bang

Or just leave it, and see if just burns itself out ? :evil :fried

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:07 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Well, I've been riding it today with the cut down can, and it sounds fine, not too quiet, not too loud.

Still gets blooming hot though !

A Speed Triple left hand can is on the way, that bike has the cat in the header pipes, rather than in the silencers.

Here's a photo taken today:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Shiny pipes.

More proof that digital cameras lie, they are really quite rusty on the reverse side.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:55 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Fitted the Speed Triple 1050 can.

Sounds really deep and throaty, but is a tad large and heavy. :o

As I said elsewhere, does my bum look big with this ? :rollin

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 7:41 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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I have a CB175 tank fitted in the photo above, original CL tank in the loft until recently.

With this nice weather we've been having, it seemed a good time to repaint the CL tank. Just done with paint and stuff from Halfords, apart from the ProXL two pack lacquer, which really is fantastic stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U10Eb_j_5s

My first attempt at pin striping using masking tape, rather than cheating and using pinstripe tape, as I did on the CB tank.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri Jul 07, 2017 10:48 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Love the bike - a proper classic Honda :D

Tank looks great too.

I'm planning on painting a couple of racing stripes down the centre of the Hornet tank and down the centre of the Hornet Cup tail I'm going to fit - I might check out some of the later Ducati Monster paint jobs which also featured racing stripes for inspiration)

It's obviously one of those jobs that has to be absolutely spot on - haven't done any research yet on how to do it properly but I'm looking forward to having a go.


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:46 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Thanks for the kind remarks.

I've said this before, but this ProXL lacquer is a real find, IMHO. Easy to get a brilliant finish, and it is very petrol resistant, despite a muppets review on Amazon. By comparison, Halfords 'fuel resistant' lacquer is useless, not fit for purpose.

Pinstriping. I just used a single strand of pin stripe masking tape. You can get fancier tapes, that come in multi parts, peel out the centre section to make masking a stripe easy. Wouldn't have worked for my paint scheme.

Or you could cheat, and use some stick on stripes, then maybe lacquer over the top. Plenty of blue Fords around with white racing stripes, look great IMHO, bet those are just stuck on.

For example, random image from the web:

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:26 am 
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True Horneteer
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Thanks for the info on the ProXL lacquer Richard - I'll check it it out.

I'll have to take a closer look at one of those Fords (it's never occurred to me that they were stick on stripes so they obviously do the job)

I'm happy to use anything that speeds my project up a bit :angel

I'm sure the stick on stripes will look great if applied properly and then finished off with some decent lacquering.


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 8:29 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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175 is going well at the moment.

Out for a ride out on the A44 yesterday, came up behind a convoy of riders wearing orange tabards, on naked bikes, Bandits and the like. Riding at around 45-50 mph, holding cars up. What was that all about, some sort of DAS training ?

Anyway, I passed the lot of them around some twisties on my little 175, just like being 18 again !

And then I showed a bloke on a new Royal Enfield how to filter in town traffic, came home feeling very pleased with life. :lol

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Fri May 04, 2018 5:03 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Been a while since I posted in this thread.

Here's my pair of twins. The one with the Colorado plate is just waiting for DVLA to return a new historic UK registration, it is insured on the frame number and passed its MOT last week. I plan to ride it around for the summer, then strip it in the autumn, to get the frame stripped and painted / powdercoated. I've already sorted the electrics and external mechanical bits like chain and control cables, repainted the red bits etc.

Image

I ride the other CB175 regularly, but until I looked at this photo below I hadn't realised that the fork gaiters had split again. This is the third set, if you count the ones that were on the bike when I got it. Must try and source some better quality ones, or go naked, just fit dust seals same as CB200. ( This bike started life as a CL175 on / off roader )

Image

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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 11:46 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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Location: Worcester
Got my new V5 yesterday, on an historic 'J' registration for this one. They've put it as a 1971 bike on the V5, although dating stuff that I sent to them showed it to be a 1970 model.

Whatever, I'm happy and relieved that this final hurdle has cleared, just waiting for a number plate to arrive from Ebay now, blowed if I'm going to the local bike dealer to get one with their logo on it. Need to phone the insurers and advise them of the reg no now, insured on frame number at the moment.

In all, it took one week for DVLA this time, posted last Friday week, back here on Saturday.

_________________
And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Sun May 06, 2018 2:01 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1558
Location: In The Garage
Brilliant - it's great to know these old bikes are still being maintained and ridden :clap - 1970 - Mungo Jerry 'In the Summertime' in the charts etc :angel


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 2:15 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:51 pm
Posts: 5163
Location: Worcester
Mungo Jerry, I remember that song well.

'Have a drink, have a drive, go out and see what you can find'.

Millenials wouldn't approve .....

_________________
And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun


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 Post subject: Re: New Project
 Post Posted: Mon May 07, 2018 5:35 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Posts: 1558
Location: In The Garage
Quote:
Millenials wouldn't approve .....


The rot set in as early as 1992! :angel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5ma_Xv7rGM


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