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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:04 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Used bike prices* seem to be quite high at the moment - there seem to be a lot less used bargains out there than five or six years ago and some quite fruity prices for even 14 year old, fairly average condition, high mileage machines.

I'm guessing this is related to relatively weak sales for brand new bikes (due to the sluggish economy over the past five years) which has strengthened the used market?

I got this quote from the 'wisebuyers guide':

''In recent weeks we have heard several remarkable stories of big profits being made on quite poor condition older bikes. These make a mockery of the margins achievable on new bike sales and serve to remind us why the used market is so important. We wish you all the very best for 2015 and look forward to a positive future for the whole two wheel market.''

This will presumably have also pushed up the margin on privately sold bikes - as private sellers will be valuing their bikes based on what they see dealers charging for used machines?

*I'm only looking at litre sportsbikes - so not sure about the rest of the market.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 8:42 pm 
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A good proportion of bikes are still wrapped up in sheds and garages waiting for the spring/summer to appear. This means that supply is limited slightly which in turn pushes up prices a little. Some buyers fail to take into account condition and will pay a few hundred pounds less for a higher miles and poorer condition bike, Just because it's cheaper when in reality the less miles and better condition bike will be the better buy.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:39 pm 
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I have also noticed this used bike price increase, having bought and sold bikes over the last 35 years , whether its , winter or summer.

For example , Fireblade 2001 RRY , 12k miles , I sold for £2200 10 years ago , now I see them for at least this price with far higher miles
Oh I wish I kept that bike :Bang :Bang :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry


I always keep my eye out for used bikes , and I have not seen any " reasonable priced" bikes for sale for many years.

is it the high new prices demanded now , lack of new sales ? and as you say , pushing up used bike sales, I would go with this.

Anyone selling a bike knows selling in winter is not the time to get your best price really, and wait till spring summer to sell.

I think the days of a bargain used bike are long gone, and with the state of the future economy its not going to get any better.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:13 pm 
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True Horneteer
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woodyeee wrote:
A good proportion of bikes are still wrapped up in sheds and garages waiting for the spring/summer to appear. This means that supply is limited slightly which in turn pushes up prices a little. Some buyers fail to take into account condition and will pay a few hundred pounds less for a higher miles and poorer condition bike, Just because it's cheaper when in reality the less miles and better condition bike will be the better buy.


Yeah - good point about the spring/summer - supply does seem to be quite limited at the moment - I've seen the same small number of (overpriced in my opinion) bikes hanging around on autotrader and gumtree for weeks

paulh0rnet wrote:
I have also noticed this used bike price increase, having bought and sold bikes over the last 35 years , whether its , winter or summer.

For example , Fireblade 2001 RRY , 12k miles , I sold for £2200 10 years ago , now I see them for at least this price with far higher miles
Oh I wish I kept that bike :Bang :Bang :cry :cry :cry :cry :cry


Funnily enough I've been checking out Blade 929s this week - and you are absolutely right - dealers are advertising 40k miles 929's for as much as 2.5 grand - and private prices are not that far behind - although if you look long and hard enough the odd private bargain does still come up - trouble is they are usually about 200 miles away . . . :Bang

It was a completely different story in the late 90's and early noughties - credit was easy and the Japanese seemed to be bringing out a lighter, more powerful sportsbike every twelve months - and flush punters were only too happy to chop in their year old machines just to get their leg over the latest Blade, R1 etc - hence the glut of used bikes on the market and the bargains that could be had back then.

Definitely not a buyers market at the moment dammit! :Bang


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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:32 pm 
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Haha, make your own :angel

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:48 am 
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370steve wrote:
Haha, make your own :angel


lol :angel

I was thinking of buying a Cat D salvage job from an auction site and restoring it - but at the lower end of the market (e.g. 8 years and older sportsbikes) the economics didn't seem to work out - by the time you paid the auction fee/bike transportation and replaced the bent forks/bodywork etc you wouldn't be far off the cost of a decent uncrashed equivalent.

It did seem that you could save proper money on relatively new, high value bikes that insurance companies had written off for silly minor stuff - like scuffed fairngs and exhaust cans resulting from very low speed offs which just required some plastic repair, a respray and an after market can to put right.

I saw a 2/3 year old Cat D BMW (one of the larger sports tourers) with hardly any damage go at auction for at least 2/3 grand under market price.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 1:18 pm 
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There seems to be a feeding frenzy on Ebay for anything from the '70's, air cooled and wire wheels, both for complete bikes and for parts, no matter how tatty or rusty. Very little around for less than a grand, with several buyers chasing every part that comes up.

Early Hornets seem to be cheap as chips these days, going for less money than ER5s or CB500s.

I like to read Neil Murray ( The Older Gentleman, for folks with long memories, back in the days of dial up internet ) used bike column in MCN, although for a chap supposedly on our side he does rather brag about all the bargains he's scored.

For newer bikes, I'd have thought the recent increase in folks buying on the never never, sorry PCP, would have flooded the market with three year old bikes.

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 1:17 am 
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Right - I didn't realise the classic market was so buoyant - I guess a lot of this is to do with the internet - the ability to track down older bikes, get hold of obscure parts, technical information and tools is so much easier now than it was pre-internet 20 odd years ago.

Yeah - I remember Neil Murray from 'Bike' magazine - when he had the monthly column on market conditions, buying tips and bargains.

Regarding the Hornet - I would be more than happy to snap up another MK1/MK2 Hornet at a low price - but then I am biased :D

Perhaps the increase in three year old bikes on the used market you mention might have an effect in nudging down prices at the lower end of the market. :Pray


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Funnily enough I was just reading an article in last Septembers' PB about a related issue - the decline of the 600.

They reckon the market is crammed with good nearly new 600's, and as demanded in general for new bikes had waned the manufacturers weren't developing them (the 600's that is), so no real incentive to buy this year's new model - a death spiral.
So newish used 600's will start to dry up but for now there is a glut of them - maybe time to snap up a good one?

A main reason for the decline of sports 600's is that they were becoming more & more race focused, whilst their middle aged riders are becoming less so. Being older they could afford to buy & insurance the litre bikes, which are easier to ride fast and just not as hard work to keep in the power.
Next is the development of electronic rider aids to help control the litre bikes, which makes them a more realistic option to a wider range of riders. A new litre bike with traction control and all the rest of the new goodies could actually make the bike safer to ride than a 600 sport.

So I think the younger generation are not so interested in bikes.
Our generation is moving towards litre bikes which has the effect of devaluing the 600 sport bikes (both new & used) and increasing the demand on the litre bike market. This market has seen increases in new bikes sales but it'll take a while for these bikes to make there way down the used bike scales, especially into the sub £5k arena (where most of us hunt).

So basically I expect this trend to be short lived.
In years to come those ultra flashy new litre bikes will be at the more affordable end of the used market and will put pressure on the old school litre bikes to some extent.


Last edited by knee_jerk on Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:44 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Thanks Knee-Jerk - some really interesting info there :D

It should be worth lookingt at the 600s then - I definitely wouldn't turn my nose up at a Kawasaki zx636.

Regarding market demographics - I see a lot 16/17 year olds riding scooters these days because it's so expensive for young people to insure a car - perhaps they will develop a taste for two wheels and graduate onto motorcycles and inject new life into an increasingly middle aged market?

The current demography is a bit like the late 80's -youngsters just getting onto the road were ignoring bikes in favour of cheap hatchbacks depriving the motorcycle market of new blood - and the mid-80's licence restrictions didn't help by killing off the sexy 250 market (in favour of the 125) which made bikes even less appealing.

Interesting article on the 250 market here:
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/may/mcn-plus---whatever-happened-to-the-250-generation/


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:53 pm 
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They actually went on to classify what to get for the money.

£1500
2001 - 2003 GSX-R600 - Good bike and still trackable but maintenence could have slipped as the bike is at the cheaper end.

£2.5k to £3.5k
2003 - 2004 CBR600RR - Fast lap times made easy.

£3k to £4k
2006 - 2007 YZF-R6 - Same as the new bike but for a third of the price.

£4.5k to £6k
2009 - 2012 ZX-6R - Noted for impressive front end handling and power.

£6k plus
2013 onwards Daytona 675
PB say it's the best 600 ever made and they hope it doesn't get scrapped (or dramatically changed) due to euro regs, If it does then the current one could become a collectors bike. They are already holding their used values well.

If I had room in the loft I might be tempted to snap up a couple Daytona's. :angel


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 9:40 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Cheers Knee Jerk - some good info there.

If you are after a used bike it's definitely worth spending at least a couple of months religiously checking out the market for specific bikes to get an idea of what you should be paying - prices at the lower end of the market can be all over the place taking no account of mileage or condition but based on what the dealer/punter thinks he can get away with - for example I've seen a bog standard Y2K R1 with about 36k on the clock advertised by a dealer at 1400 quid over market value - although it's an extreme example it does underline the need to do your homework before you part with cash.

You could definitely make some money on those Daytonas a few years down the line :D


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:58 pm 
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After reading hoons post , could motorcycling be on the decline , my kids all go for cars and wouldn't dream of getting a bike, as do their friends, and if one of their friends does get a bike its like " wow marks got a bike " like its a big thing to do.

In my day we all started with 49cc motorbikes at 16 , the FS1E was the BIG favourite, then we went to 125cc , then passed test as soon as we hit 17 then the big stuff.

Also all the bikers at my work are all middle age or above.

I also know biker forums are on the decline , with some gone forever !!

Are we the last generation of true bikers ???? 8o

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:39 am 
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I think you will find the truth of the matter is its to cold and wet this time of year. If we do get any decent weather for more than a week or two I'm sure the bikers will start to come out in a month or two.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:10 pm 
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The figures for new riders can be confusing - apparently there were a lot of new riders in 2012-13 taking their tests to avoid being penalised by proposed licence restrictions on younger riders:

“In 2012 there was a surge in the number of people taking tests prior to the introduction of new European rules that restrict access to bigger bikes for certain age groups (the age was changed from 21-years-old to 24-years-old). This surge was naturally followed by a dip in 2013, but we would expect the numbers to even themselves out over the coming months.”*

Looking at the health of the motorcycle industry as a whole the increasing wealth and industralisation of the BRIC countries - (Brazil, India and China etc) is good news for the future of the industry (and the bikes we like to ride) as there is a growing market in these countries for more expensive, large capacity sports and road bikes - for example there is a very high quality Indian motorcycle show which you can see on youtube which does very good reviews of all the latest high end 600 and litre bikes - same goes for Brazil, China, South east Asia etc - 25 years ago the market for bikes in these countries tended to be limited to smaller capacity machines that people relied on simply to get from A to B - whereas now there is a very healthy leisure/enthusiasts market in these countries - which means that even if performance motorcycling shrinks in it's traditional markets there is still plenty of incentive for motorcycle manufacturers to continue producing larger capacity, performance machines to supply these relatively new and growing markets.

*http://www.adventurebikerider.com/news/1016-whats-to-blame-for-the-recent-decline-in-new-riders.html


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 Post Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:44 am 
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Another bif factor in the increase in price of used bikes is all the bikes going to Europe. There was a massive surge of bikes going out of the country as they were selling for much higher prices in the old eastern block countries.
Even a couple of months ago my mate sold his super duke to a polish guy who had three other bikes in the back of the van to take home. After haggling over the price told my mate he would nearly double his money when he sold it.


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 Post Posted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:53 am 
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Looks it...

A trader (J&S) wants 2500 for a 2001 faired hornet with 27,000 miles on it... by my reckoning mine should be worth 3000 with 12,000 miles on it... utter bollocks :rollin


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 Post Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:18 am 
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Yeah - if you are after a used bike try and get to know the market before you are ready to spend money - then you will have a better idea of what you should be paying rather than some dealer/private sellers idea of the maximum inflated price he can get away with - you would be suprised at the difference in pricing at this end of the market - if you are ignorant you could find yourself paying 2,800 quid for a 40 thousand mile bike and the next day seeing a private mint 14 thousand miler for 800 pounds less.


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:04 pm 
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Someone on reddit was saying that his medium mileage, medium condition gs1200 went for asking price pretty soon after he advertised it.
Apparently most of the callers were European dealers and they flew over and paid in full.
European dealers are taking advantage of the weak Pound.

If thats a sign of things to come, looks like a rough few years for the used bike buyers in the UK.
Aahh well, brought it upon ourselves.


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:27 pm 
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That's interesting.

The weak pound will favour British exporters but the flip side is that domestic consumers wil be paying more for imported items - so far so predictable - however I would never have imagined that it would also have an impact on a relatively small and niche economic sector like the used UK motorcycle market - but in an online environment where foreign motorcycle dealers can locate and pay for a used UK motorcycle down a fibre optic internet cable it makes perfect sense.


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 Post Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 11:23 pm 
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I remember many years ago that Germans were booking all our cheap flights and coming to the UK to fly away on cheap holidays... The real price of globalisation! Lol.


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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 9:16 am 
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Yeah - but the danger is that the weaker pound will magnify existing economic (and by implication social) problems associated with globalisation - a case in point being foreign investors pricing out UK property buyers - with a now weaker post-Brexit pound many foreign investors are taking advantage of the favourable exchange rates and looking beyond London to buy up property in provincial UK towns.


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 Post Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:45 pm 
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Tis true... I suppose the next effect from this will be small rise in all bike prices (new & old) to respond to growing demand from abroad, which is the inflation that we've been warned to expect due to the falling pound..


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:41 pm 
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Bumping an old topic but still relevant! Looked at the 2001~ faired hornet on autotrader recently and they’re more expensive now than then I purchased mine 4 years ago!

Waddya reckon, bike is going up in value or it’s sellers market?


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 Post Posted: Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:17 pm 
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I've been following the used market quite closely for a while now and this is what I picked up;

The prices for used relatively late model (within last decade) bikes tends to be stable and predictable and you can more or less anticipate what a good condition, average mileage 2010 blade, gsxr etc is going to cost (assuming it isn't a cat D/N write off, has excessively high mileage or any other factor which might adversly affect the price).

On the other hand for much older bikes (15 years and older) the prices are all over the place - I've seen bikes which are over priced by optimistic sellers by 1k, 2k over market value - these usually hang around for quite a bit until the seller gets the message and sets a more realistic figure, on the other hand bargains do crop up, usually bikes tha have sat around for a bit with no MOT etc because the owner has lost interest or which have an easily fixable problem like a burnt out stator and again the owner just cannot be arsed to fork out for the repair or do the job themselves.

This is why if you are interested in buying a used bike take a good look at the market beforehand so that you can get a feel for what represents a bargain, a fair price or a rip off.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:36 am 
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Editorial in this months 'Motorcycle Mechanics' seems to think that real world prices ( as opposed to the optimists and 'investors' > spit ) ARE going up.

According to them, bikes like the original Fazer, a CBR600 or a Bandit, until recently £1000 would buy a useable example, now you'd need to budget £2k for a decent one.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:17 pm 
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Quote:
According to them, bikes like the original Fazer, a CBR600 or a Bandit, until recently £1000 would buy a useable example, now you'd need to budget £2k for a decent one.


Yeah, prices for these middle weight sports/commuters are getting close to what you would pay for an early GSXR/R1/BLADE.

Off the top of my head I can only put it down to rising costs of living and economic uncertainty which means that people are tightening their budgets and turning away from new bikes and looking for used bikes under 650cc for their lower purchase, running, tax and insurance costs, this explanation would also account for the prices of these bikes drawing closer to the price you would pay for a used litre sportsbike of the same vintage on account of the extra costs of insurance, tax and running costs (tyres and chains etc) associated with these bikes. Anecdotally I know of a commuting Fireblade owner who traded his Blade in for a CBR600 F4i for exactly these reasons, the guy had a mortage and family to support and couldn't justify the extra costs associated with the Blade and bought the 600 instead - which he was very pleased with.


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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:48 pm 
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This could be worth checking out, I haven't looked at it yet but a cursory glance looks promising if you want to gain a ballpark figure for the bike you are looking at, but obviously the price you should pay will depend upon your own personal assessment of the bike in question according to cosmetic and mechanical condition, history and mileage rather than that model/year's generic market value.

https://www.thebikemarket.co.uk/


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:19 am 
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The other side of the coin, particularly with bikes from the '70's, is that some of the folks who had, or wished that they had had, those bikes back then are now in a position to relive their youth.

Mortgage paid off, kids left home, index linked pension etc etc, all competing for a diminishing pool of bikes. Prices on Ebay for parts and 'barn finds' have rocketed over the last few years.

Investments ? The idea that buying old bikes is a better investment than keeping that big pension payout in the building society is a bit flawed in my view. True, things like Vincents and Broughs will likely hold their prices, much like Old Master oil paintings, but I doubt the mundane stuff will. There will come a point when the teens of the 1970's will retire from biking and sell up, market will be flooded.

I think at the moment we are where the Dutch were with tulip bulbs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:30 am 
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HOON98 wrote:
This could be worth checking out, I haven't looked at it yet but a cursory glance looks promising if you want to gain a ballpark figure for the bike you are looking at, but obviously the price you should pay will depend upon your own personal assessment of the bike in question according to cosmetic and mechanical condition, history and mileage rather than that model/year's generic market value.

https://www.thebikemarket.co.uk/


That IS an interesting website, thanks for that.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:34 am 
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Interesting point there Richard, and one I hadn't considered.

Yep, I think most bikes from the period in which they got classed as UJM's are enjoying a comeback, so much so that the manufacturers have started to replicate them again. People are also competing for the used stock to turn them into questionable cafe racers, that craze has got to be dying out now surely?

I've not suffered the UJM ailment but I recently found myself looking at GT750's after a GT500 came up for sale on another bike forum, and only yesterday at RD500's, but they really are a classic. :angel
I doubt I'd ever bother with such things though. I don't have space for a trophy bike, and my garage isn't a pristine environment for storing such things.


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:41 am 
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Yeah, interesting observations regarding the 1970's market.

A more recent 'appreciating classic' I've been interested in is the Honda VTR1000 SP1/SP2 - not for investment purposes or because it's regarded as a 'classic' but simply because I like the bike and want to ride it - but I've been put off getting one for the aformentioned reasons e.g. it's expensive for what is essentially an old used bike relative to a used R1 of the same era which is much cheaper and just as desirable from a performance/riding point of view - plus I've got the feeling that buying a bike regarded as 'an appreciating classic' might inhibit my enjoyment of the bike - when I get a bike I don't want to be thinking about keeping the mileage down and preserving the cosmetics etc because I'm anticipating a future payday selling it - all that guff gets in the way of why we ride bikes.

One boring Sunday evening I had the (probably hare brained) idea of building my own SP1/2 from parts off Ebay figuring that I could undercut the purchase price for a used one by at least a couple of K - I collated a list of available used frames, swingarms, wheels bodywork etc and the figures worked out until I got to the engine - the problems being price and availability - frustratingly if I was based in the US this would not have been a problem - it seems there are a lot more SP1/SP2 engines available on US Ebay and they were significantly cheaper (thus justifiying the cost of a scratch build) than those that came up for sale in the UK - but obviously the cost of importation of a heavy bulky item like an engine from the US would wipe out any savings made on the intitial purchace price. Ho hum, just another pipe dream I guess . . .


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:20 pm 
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ah, so you want a VTR1000 but don't want to spend VTR1000 money?
That's where the Suzuki TL1000R comes in.

I've been tempted.... :angel


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Hmmm, from what I've read they are not that good handling wise (and yes - I'm referring to the improved 'R' and not the original 'widow maker' TL with the rear shock which was prone to seizing) - plus I think the hump on the back looks faintly ridiculous. :lol

I had an SV1000 for a while (not as sporty or aggressive as the TL's but the same basic powerplant) and while I liked the big twin engine I wasn't impressed by the handling on that either - I like bikes that you feel 'plugged into' - that seem to anticipate what you want to do before you have even thought of it and subliminally suggest you do other stuff which you normally wouldn't contemplate if you know what I mean :angel (the Hornet definitely ticks this particular box).

On the big SV I always felt that I was just plonked on top of a lot of components dominated by a big booming engine which weren't talking to each other very well let alone communicating anything meaningful to me - rather than on a well thought out, cohesive whole - Suzukis are a bit hit and miss in this respect - and when they are good they are very, very good like the GSXR and original Bandit 12.


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:39 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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Location: Somerset
Agreed..., I love the idea of the TLR but I don't like the styling, or the reported handling issues.

The VTR looks very nice, and the SP2 handles better.
But push come to shove, for a bike I'd use often, I'd just buy a full faired firestorm as some of those can look pretty good.

Anyway, back on topic before someone tell us off!


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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:20 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Yeah, I think the Storm was better designed than the big SV (the smaller SV650 on the other hand is a very good bike), Honda as usual delivering the complete package.

Quote:
Anyway, back on topic before someone tell us off!


:lol


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