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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 12:47 pm 
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Johnny English

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good or bad ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BOPTeZnLOtk

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Needs to get out more!
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I don't know him personally but I know of the guy in the Vid (Shane) from the Londonbikers forum I used to frequent years ago - we've shared a few bants on the forum and I've seen him up the Ace Cafe a few times too - a lot of forum members were getting their bikes nicked - every week or two someone would be on the forum saying their bike had been nicked - this was years ago and the scale of theft was ridiculous even back then - the thieves were also totally brazen and unafraid - one night some guys on the forum went for a ride out and parked up near a burger van - when they were ordering their food a couple of moped scrotes turned up and tried to nick one of their bikes by attaching a rope to it and hauling it off! It was getting that stupid! Someone else reported that while paying for their petrol they looked out of the window only to see a gang of scrotes wheeling their bike off the petrol station forecourt!!!!

So naturally there was a lot of talk on the Londonbikers forum of setting up some kind of vigilante group - including 'bait bikes' and the like - not because anyone wanted to throw their weight around or be a hero but because people were getting desperate - some people had one bike nicked after another and were being forced out of biking because of insurance costs. - another reason was that the Police wouldn't or couldn't seem to do anything about it - like most of these things it came to nothing - until now - great to see these guys stepping up to the plate and putting their money where their mouth is - I support them 100% and If I was still living up there would definitely join them.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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Good.
I hope there are also other small groups patrolling that are more interested in dealing out some medicine when they catch them in the act.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:58 pm 
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The vigilantes will end up having their bikes stolen from them! :rollin

Unless the vigilantes are prepared to break the law themselves by being 'tooled up' with zombie knives ect making it an even fight...(we all know who'l get nicked if they do) they're wasting their time.

Can't see the moped gangs losing any sleep over it.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:22 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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You don't need tools, just numbers, body armour, and determination.
4 guys without weapons but protective gear could easily overpower 2 twats on a scooter.


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:34 pm 
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The Police are also upping their game since this stuff became national news - they are fielding officers on trail type bikes as the larger machines are pretty useless for chasing down scooters in congested city streets - plus the Met have guys posing as moped delivery drivers to trap the scrotes in the act - the scrotes are feeling the heat and there has been a reduction in this type of crime in the last few months as a result - if they know that motivated groups of bikers are also cruising around looking for them that can only increase the pressure - they have gone from being the hunters to the hunted - about bloody time too . . .


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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:12 pm 
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knee_jerk wrote:
You don't need tools, just numbers, body armour, and determination.
4 guys without weapons but protective gear could easily overpower 2 twats on a scooter.


Pure fantasy.


Body armour isn't impenetrable and it certainly won't protect your neck, arms and legs.

http://ped-cast.homeoffice.gov.uk/stand ... _Standard_[FINAL_VERSION]1.pdf

Remember this?

The moped scum have nothing to lose and you have everything to lose.

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 Post Posted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:28 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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PDF link doesn't work.

Yes, I remember that news story and yes it could happen.

But the moped scum aren't quite as "nothing to lose" as you make out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2-xzMIGJwY

1 guy saw off 2 attackers...
They didn't look that desperate to me, in fact they looked just like two opportunist teenagers that were easily spooked by a show of force against them and then couldn't get away quick enough.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:48 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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I know it's easy to be an armchair ' have a go hero ', but I personally think the public could do more to combat this scourge. If a pensioner can stab an intruder to death with the intruders own sharpened screwdriver, fine example for us all.

Perhaps by mentally making a plan of what they'd do if the situation arose. For example, the recent incident with Michael Mcintyre. He's sitting in a ruddy great Range Rover, why on earth did he get out to confront the guy who was hitting his ( laminated ? ) side window with a hammer ? Easier to drive away, maybe with one of the attackers under his wheels.

An ex copper commented in the press that the bystanders heavily out numbered the thieves. It's like the situation on the planes going into the twin towers, if more folks had said ' Let's roll ! ', rather than sitting passively and waiting for the impact.

Or that incident on London Bridge, where a scooter held up the traffic while the gang tried to pinch cameras off the parapet. A scooter, broadside on to a hefty people carrier. Why didn't the driver just run the fcuker over ? Worried about his NCB and paintwork I suppose.

( Not quite the same scenario, but an example of public apathy locally, the attitude that it's not my concern, someone else will deal with it. Someone fly tipped a load of building rubble on the pavement on the housing estate where we live. Stuff had been dumped in this area before. I got on to the council, who came and cleared it up. Couple of days later, more rubbish appears. I went ballistic, looking around the place for the culprit, who I think must be a local. Asked several folks, no one knew anything, or so they say.

There's a fellow with a pile of junk outside his garage, not related to the fly tipping. He was talking to me the other day, and told me that someone had told him that ' the @#%$ with the white car had reported him to the council '. I told him that ' I am the @#%$ with the white car, no I haven't reported you to the council, and watch who you are calling an @#%$ ! ', punctuated with a bit of finger jabbing. I also asked him who had told him this, so that I could go round and put them straight, but he wouldn't tell me.

Anyway, no further dumping to date, so perhaps the message has got around. And he's cleared up his junk as well.)

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:08 pm 
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knee_jerk wrote:
PDF link doesn't work.

Yes, I remember that news story and yes it could happen.

But the moped scum aren't quite as "nothing to lose" as you make out.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2-xzMIGJwY

1 guy saw off 2 attackers...
They didn't look that desperate to me, in fact they looked just like two opportunist teenagers that were easily spooked by a show of force against them and then couldn't get away quick enough.



From the video info.

This is the 3rd time I've been attacked by moped thieves in the last 2 years!
My bike sustained major damage as a result of this attack.
I was luckily unharmed. =(


He was attacked and fought back. (I've nothing against defending ones OWN family and property) He can take his damaged bike home and feel lucky that he wasn't stabbed in the scuffle. (It's very easy to be stabbed and not know it when the adrenaline is flowing) The scum lost nothing and got away... but he has a damaged bike and some pyschological trauma to deal with (So the loss is ALL his.)

The OP questions whether vigilantes are a good thing?

Vigilante justice often describes the actions of a single person or group of people who claim to enforce the law but lack the legal authority to do so. However, the term can also describe a general state of disarray or lawlessness, in which competing groups of people all claim to enforce the law in a given area.


Due to being challenged the scum are now 'properly' armed, they used to wave the tools they were nicking the bike with in ya face... now it's a hunting knife.


Why the vigilantes have everything to lose and the scum don't.

The vigilantes are using their own bikes with number plates on display where as the scum are using stolen bikes they don't care about... i wonder who'l commit to the chase across pavements ect? Then there's the high probability of a dropped bike, void insurance, injury, loss of earnings due to injury, no legal backing, risk of fines (because your traceable and they are not) /arrest/jail should the scum get hurt.

...and all for trying to save a strangers property?

good luck to them :rollin


Na... do as the Police do and leave it for the insurance companies to pick up the pieces.

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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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The Police should be dealing with this period!
The fact that it has taken this long for the Police & Government to start to tackle this is frankly amazing.
The law is the law and should be enforced.

I believe in some situations you need to take some personal responsibility. If you live in an area that a certain crime is rife, and it's one that is pissing off a group then this group will eventually push back. This crime has gone on unchallenged for too long, and it was just a matter of time before riders decided to try to solve it.
The word "Vigilante" has a lawless association to it but it doesn't have to.
There is a legal framework to protect you if you stand up to crime, you can make a citizen's arrest.

If a small group of bikers decides to ride around London and tail suspect scooters then why not, though that won't achieve anything and scooters will simple lose them by riding illegally.
However, if the same group happen across a theft in progress then they can legally intervene and arrest the suspects, and use reasonable force in doing so.

Would I do it, likely not. I'm a bit too old for that now but I think 15 years ago I might have been up for it (if I lived in London).

So is it good that a group of riders want to do this, I still say Yes... but they shouldn't break any laws in doing so.

By not being able to "give chase" it will limit their activities to intervening if they happen on a theft, or they could try to setup up a honey pot.

Escalation of force from the thieves - Yes, highly likely.
That's life I'm afraid, sometimes you just have to stand up to bullies.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:32 pm 
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Johnny English

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I can see at least one great point they are making here

" PUBLICITY" , yes publicity of this serious issue ,,,,

Police will need to start to answer to this now !

:clap :clap

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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:42 pm 
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I guess in these kind of arguments it's important to clarify where one is coming from - but basically it just common sense innit? :D
Personally speaking I'm against vigilantism if that means groups of self important, aggressive blowhards marching around intimidating people they don't like the look of and thinking that they can take the law into their own hands - Germany had a lot of experience of people like that back in the 1930s (The Brownshirts) - classic vigilantism has no place in a democratic, law based society - it quickly descends into paramilitary type stuff and is best left to the likes of banana republics.

What I do support is active public spiritedness - keeping your eyes peeled, reporting suspicious activity, helping your fellow citizens out etc - 'Neighbourhood Watch' type stuff - and in this sense I think this is what this group of bikers represent - they are not going out looking for trouble - a lot of these guys routinely meet up a couple of nights of the week after work as a social thing and ride out to popular meeting places like the Ace Cafe - so basically this is just a normal ride out with added vigilance - a mobile version of the Neighbourhood Watch scheme if you like.

If they see suspicious activity - dodgy looking youths riding two up on scooters they can tail them for a discreet distance to see what they are up to - the guys know from bitter experience where the crime/bike theft hotspots are - if the scrotes are heading to Oxford Street, Piccadilly area etc you can bet they are either looking for tourists to rob or seeing if they can lift an expensive Ducati or BMW parked up in Soho Square - the guys can then supply the information to the Met - who are more likely to take it seriously and act on it at the moment as this has become a big story since the media started running with it.

The combination of extra police activity and active vigilance by guys like Shane and his crew is having a disruptive effect on the scooter gangs - they know they are being actively hunted - and this is having an inhibiting effect on their activity (as the stats are showing).

As for intervening - that's a judgement call - if you have back up and they look vulnerable then have a go - if they whip out knives/hammers etc and you are unarmed then back off (run away :angel )


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... g-him.html

Everybody hates a vigilante... or do they...

:angel


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 Post Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:46 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Quote:
What I do support is active public spiritedness - keeping your eyes peeled, reporting suspicious activity, helping your fellow citizens out etc - 'Neighbourhood Watch' type stuff


Exactly.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Quote:
All that is necessary for evil to succeed is that good men do nothing


Edmund Burke.

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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Back in the old railway days, a locomotive could only pull only four or five cars at a time because if more cars than that were added, it would simply trying to get started. Then a smart young thinker came along and invented the sliding coupler, which let the locomotive 'pick up the slack' - and inertia - one car at a time. Ask any freight conductor what it was like to be in a caboose on the tail end of a 100 car train when he high balls the engineer. Instantaneous zero to 20 miles an hour. 8o

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 Post Posted: Thu Jun 28, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Johnny English

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Manchester cops have undercover bike cops !!! :clap :clap :clap

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Hg-YJ7t5BY

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 7:33 pm 
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:clap

So satisfying watching these toerags actually getting collared for a change.

These little pr*cks have been riding around London, Manchester etc for the last decade with what seems like total impunity

Nice to see the :copper finally putting some focus and resources into scooter crime and bike theft and equipping themselves with the necessary machines and tactics for the job.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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It'd be nice to believe that those were indeed three hardened criminals on those scooters.

It's the L plates that bother me. Can't help thinking that those were some schoolkids, one giving his mate an illegal ( and helmet less ) ride home.

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 Post Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Yeah - on second thoughts you could be right - they don't look like the dangerous career type criminals who have been in the news recently.


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