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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 10:31 am 
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Came across channel and he's gear reviews are brilliantly honest and well worth a look.

Check out his channel for some interesting reviews and vlogs... funny guy, he reminds me a bit of Quentin Tarantino.



"In my opinion beginners should not ride litre bikes, newbies listen up if some tells you to buy a thousand cc motorcycle.... errr they're probably trying to murder you."

Quote from the above video link :rollin






(Interesting comment section)

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:15 am 
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True Horneteer
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Haven't watched the vids yet - but based on my own experience for performance riding the 600 class is much better on the road than a litre bike - the 600 has more than enough power, acceleration and top end for the road and the power and performance is easier to access for most riders - it's quite likely that most of us would be faster on a 600 on road and track than we would on a thousand - unless it's the kind of track with a very long straight where extra top end might tip the balance.

People will always want litre bikes though - because we are guys and we have egos and all want to have the biggest and mostest even if we don't need it or won't use it :p

Litre bikes are nice if you do a lot of commuting and are a bit lazy - as there are less gear changes - around town you can keep the thing in first for most of the time so it's a bit like having a big automatic scooter packing a massive amount of totally redundant horsepower :angel


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:23 am 
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HOON98 wrote:
Haven't watched the vids yet - but based on my own experience for performance riding the 600 class is much better on the road than a litre bike - the 600 has more than enough power, acceleration and top end for the road and the power and performance is easier to access for most riders - it's quite likely that most of us would be faster on a 600 on road and track than we would on a thousand - unless it's the kind of track with a very long straight where extra top end might tip the balance.

People will always want litre bikes though - because we are guys and we have egos and all want to have the biggest and mostest even if we don't need it or won't use it :p

Litre bikes are nice if you do a lot of commuting and are a bit lazy - as there are less gear changes - around town you can keep the thing in first for most of the time so it's a bit like having a big automatic scooter packing a massive amount of totally redundant horsepower :angel


Agreed :clap

(I want one)

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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:26 am 
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This one was made me laugh :lol


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:36 am 
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True Horneteer
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(I want one)


lol! me too - have recently been scoping out a litre R1/GSXR project bike - never been any good at following my own advice :angel


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 Post Posted: Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:16 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Haven't watched the video, hate U tube in general.

However, is he talking about this country or the US ?

As I understand it, in some states over there anyone can simply buy and ride a 1000cc sports bike, regardless of previous experience, if any. With a T shirt and shorts for protective wear.

We all know the situation over here, very difficult system for new riders, by the time they get to a litre bike they'll have earned the right.

Based on my own experience, I'd say the problem here is with born agains. I passed my test back in the bad old days of 250cc L plates, test examiner on foot with a clipboard. Like many young blokes, I gave up bikes a couple of years after passing my test, then returned to bikes in middle age.

I could then have jumped straight onto a 'Blade or R1, and almost certainly killed myself. As it was, I had a year on a Kawasaki GPz305 to get my biking legs back again.

Then jumped onto a Hornet and nearly killed myself. Several times .......

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 Post Posted: Sun Nov 05, 2017 1:36 am 
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True Horneteer
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I could then have jumped straight onto a 'Blade or R1, and almost certainly killed myself. As it was, I had a year on a Kawasaki GPz305 to get my biking legs back again. .


Yeah, this is true.

I was doing about 400 miles a week all year round solidly for a few years as a commuting biker and in that time I'd say my riding skills got pretty sharp and my reflexes became very well developed, but since then a change of work location has drastically reduced my weekly mileage and exposure to the bike and the road - these days I get on the bike and automatically start riding at the kind of pace and tempo I was used to riding in the past when I was doing 1600 miles a month - except I can't - the reflexes are rusty and I end up catching myself out here and there and have to wind my neck in - something which wasn't a problem before - although I'm sure that I could get back to my previous standard after a couple of weeks if I put the necessary miles in.

It's easy to start taking your riding skills for granted and forget just how much you have learned over the years and the kind of skill and experience it takes to ride a bike well.


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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:16 am 
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Victor Meldrew
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My problem, and I suspect the same of other born again, was that I'd never owned a big bike due to lack of funds. As a more solvent middle aged bloke I could have bought something totally outside of my skill set, ridden it like a complete fit and totalled myself.

Despite my 305 experience, which did open my eyes to the way traffic had speeded up in the intervening 25 years, I still started out riding my shiny new Hornet like a complete tit. Calmed down a bit after a few scares and an incident with a van.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 12:48 pm 
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Yeah - same here - personally I could never justify blowing 10k on a bike when cheaper routes into motorcycle ownership are available - and over the last few years I've taken advantage of the fact that a lof the amazing litre and 750 bikes I was salivating over in the late 90s and early noughties that I couldn't afford at the time are now used 30,000 mile machines within relatively easy financial reach - refresh the suspension, tyres and brakes and you'll have something as near as dammit fast and fine handling as anything current out there.

I also have to admit that even after 20 years of solid riding bikes of various displacements an R1/GSXR is still well outside my skillset - but I guess I still want one quite simply because (paraphrasing George Mallory) 'they are there'.


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:04 am 
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Riding a litre bike is not as hard as you think, I currently have a k4 Gsxr 1000 they are relatively easier to ride than a 600. Like the 600 and 900 Hornet, the 900 is a lot less work to ride as it has much more grunt. Some like the way you have to work the 600 to make it perform.
Anyone can ride a 600cc or 1000cc bike without to much drama, the real issue is when you want to ride them fast.....that's what catches a lot of guys out, they get to a decent speed pretty quickly. For example a 1000cc sports bike will do around 100mph in first gear and leave most supercars for dead at a fraction of the cost. My advice is buy a 1000cc bike but respect the power, the bike will not kill you..........but temptation to use the power in an inappropriate place may.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:13 am 
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True Horneteer
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Hi Woodyee - I was wondering where you had got to - and then I remembered that you ran off with a GSXR Thou! :angel

Yeah - you are absolutely right - I think the 'respect the power' thing generally comes with maturity and experience - I cringe to think of some of the nutcases I used to knock around with when I was 18/19 swinging a leg over a litre sportsbike and where they would end up.


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:16 pm 
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I've been getting a strong urge to add a GSXR 1000 K7 to my stable... not that I need another but I just can't help it... :angel


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:51 pm 
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woodyeee wrote:
Riding a litre bike is not as hard as you think, I currently have a k4 Gsxr 1000 they are relatively easier to ride than a 600. Like the 600 and 900 Hornet, the 900 is a lot less work to ride as it has much more grunt. Some like the way you have to work the 600 to make it perform.
Anyone can ride a 600cc or 1000cc bike without to much drama, the real issue is when you want to ride them fast.....that's what catches a lot of guys out, they get to a decent speed pretty quickly. For example a 1000cc sports bike will do around 100mph in first gear and leave most supercars for dead at a fraction of the cost. My advice is buy a 1000cc bike but respect the power, the bike will not kill you..........but temptation to use the power in an inappropriate place may.


:clap :clap :clap

i been riding for nearly 40 years , R1,s , Fireblades , CBR600s , Hornets , list goes on , i totally agree with Daryl !

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Quote:
I think the 'respect the power' thing generally comes with maturity and experience


I'm nearly 64. Still waiting for maturity to arrive ...

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:31 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Quote:
I'm nearly 64. Still waiting for maturity to arrive ...


Excellent! Proof positive that riding motorcycles keeps you young! :angel :clap


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 Post Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2018 1:15 pm 
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I'm in the US and in most of the country, we're still free and you can ride whatever you want anytime you want.

I hope it stays that way.

It's not the bike that is the problem, it's the nut behind the handlebars.

My first street bike came into my hands in 1978 at the age of 17.

It was a pristine 1972 Kawasaki H1B - probably not the best beginner bike for someone with zero experience on the street and absolutely no training.

But I made it and would not want it to be any other way, nor would I want to dictate to anyone else what they should do.

That being said, I took an active role with my kids, started them young, and my daughter wanted and did take "the riding class" on her own.

I think I've said enough

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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:22 am 
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I've been talking to more & more people who have litre bikes and I'm forming the opinion that it's a waste of a bike for highway use.

Last guy had a modified ZX10R. I spoke about where the power comes in and what speed that represents. 6,000 rpm is where it really starts to happen which corresponds to about 60 mph in 1st gear. So to ever experience the full power from the engine you are going to be over the national speed limit, not that this applies to bikers I know... :angel
But that's irrelevant as you can't do that in 1st on this ZX10R anyway as the front will just come up, so you have to short shift to stay out of the power. Ok so what about in 5th doing 140 mph, still dangerous to open up as the front can still come up...
So what's the point, when can you use it's full power... maybe that bike was not typical as it was modified.

I did a maths exercise based on output power curves and gear ratios for the common speeds that bikers would be at when winding it open, like leaving a 30 into a national, overtaking a car at 50, that sort of thing. I then compared my SD against a GSXR1000 K5 (as I'd like one) at the likely gears I'd be in during normal riding, and in these situations my SD would have more power available than the GSXR1000 would.
This has kind of put me off now.

Some people I spoke to talked about the torque that the 1000's have so no need to rev them...., but that is not what the engine has been designed for, they basically rarely use all the engine has to offer, if ever.
In contrast on my SD my throttle is often at 100% and the revs often go all the way to the top, but not in 1st as I don't want to die. :)

To me this is proof that in most normal highway situations a "street bike" (like a super naked) will feel faster and might actually be faster.
This probably also explains the recent'ish rise of the super nakeds with detuned sport bike engines 'cus what's the point of a peak power at 12,000 rpm for anywhere other than on a track.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 2:46 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Yeah, this is an interesting subject - I'm currently in the market for an 04 to 06 litre sports bike, and have read tons of reviews of the GSXR 1000, ZX10R, Fireblade and R1 models which came out in these two years.

I admit to suffering cognitive dissonance on this subject - in the sense that I know there are better bikes for a road rider like me than these superbikes - but there is another part of me that wants to experience what are regarded as the most intensively developed, powerful and technically advanced machines available before I come to my senses and buy a beautiful, really well set up 250/400cc sportsbike that I can ride faster and get more pleasure out of through my favourite set of bends than on any 1000cc superbike..

Quote:
I've been talking to more & more people who have litre bikes and I'm forming the opinion that it's a waste of a bike for highway use.


Yes, the enormous power and capabilities of modern litre sports bikes make them pretty much irrelevant on the road, they can only truly be experienced on the track, Nurbugring etc. Except that a lot of people riding the latest litre sports bikes do not have the skill or ability to properly experience them on the track/Nurbugring either.

Quote:
Last guy had a modified ZX10R. I spoke about where the power comes in and what speed that represents. 6,000 rpm is where it really starts to happen which corresponds to about 60 mph in 1st gear. So to ever experience the full power from the engine you are going to be over the national speed limit, not that this applies to bikers I know... But that's irrelevant as you can't do that in 1st on this ZX10R anyway as the front will just come up, so you have to short shift to stay out of the power. Ok so what about in 5th doing 140 mph, still dangerous to open up as the front can still come up... So what's the point, when can you use it's full power... maybe that bike was not typical as it was modified.


No it's typical - even the standard ZX10R is a real handful even for experienced riders - in an 06 group test the ZX10R finished last because the power delivery was so aggressive;

'the ZX10R finished last place because the massive engine performance has a wayward quality that borders on the out of control. Wheelies are great fun, but not when the thing smacks you in the face every time you change gear. But hey some people like that, and if you're a Kawasaki man, you'll buy it anyway and wonder what the hell we are on about'

On the other hand the 06 GSXR thou whilst possessing enormous power like the Kawasaki did get praise for the way it delivers this power:

'The Suzuki GSXR 1000 puts you, the rider firmly in control. It does exactly what you want, all the time, in every situation. It's a fantastic lesson in taking 156bhp and delivering it in a way everyone from novice to racer can use'.

Which still begs the question - why would a novice or even a decent road rider need 156bhp even if the bike is relatively user friendly? It's just silly.

Quote:
I did a maths exercise based on output power curves and gear ratios for the common speeds that bikers would be at when winding it open, like leaving a 30 into a national, overtaking a car at 50, that sort of thing. I then compared my SD against a GSXR1000 K5 (as I'd like one) at the likely gears I'd be in during normal riding, and in these situations my SD would have more power available than the GSXR1000 would.
This has kind of put me off now.


This is a good point - bikes like the GSXR make peak power in the upper rev range to get the bike quickly up to top speed on long race track straights as you know - why would you want a bike calibrated for the track over a bike calibrated for the road if you spend all your time on the road?

Quote:
Some people I spoke to talked about the torque that the 1000's have so no need to rev them...., but that is not what the engine has been designed for, they basically rarely use all the engine has to offer, if ever.
In contrast on my SD my throttle is often at 100% and the revs often go all the way to the top, but not in 1st as I don't want to die.


Yeah - I had a Yamaha Thunderace 1000 - which compared to modern sportsbikes look like an ugly old school bus - but it did have a 1002 cc 145 bhp engine - and there was this sense of trundling around with vast reserves of untapped and unexploitable power and potential - (it's great if you are lazy as it's almost like having an automatic - you rarely have to change gear) - but where I live in the south east the roads are so congested that you rarely get the opportunity to really let rip on a large powerful bike - there are always fifty cars ahead of you and fifty cars coming at you so riding fast in these conditions feels anti-social and dangerous (not that I used to give a f*ck when I was younger about that kind of thing - but these days I am mature and socially responsible :angel )

so instead you seek out the slower, twistier, more technical roads to get your motorcycling kicks - but here again a big powerful bike is irrelevant anyway and you would be better off on something smaller with easier to get at power - and not something that will low or high side you if you misjudge your throttle control.

Quote:
To me this is proof that in most normal highway situations a "street bike" (like a super naked) will feel faster and might actually be faster.
This probably also explains the recent'ish rise of the super nakeds with detuned sport bike engines 'cus what's the point of a peak power at 12,000 rpm for anywhere other than on a track.


Yeah - this is the reason for the existence of the Yamaha FZ1, Honda CB1000R, Kawasaki Z1000 etc - they are 'road going sports bikes' rather than track orientated sportsbikes - the power delivery and riding position make all these bikes the logical choice for the road rider over the pure sports bike.

But the aforementioned cognitive dissonance (fancy words for irrational) means that I'm still looking to bag a litre superbike at some point . . .


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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 5:45 pm 
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Yeh, reading that the GSXR is more controllable just makes me want one still. :angel

But I likely won't.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 6:58 pm 
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Great post Kneejerk and Hoon98.. thank you both i enjoyed the read :clap

Now if only we could ride like

Great video and comment section :)

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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 7:32 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Yeh, reading that the GSXR is more controllable just makes me want one still.


If you do get the GSXR the 05 is a great choice - it's been described as the best GSXR of the lot.

Quote:
Great post Kneejerk and Hoon98.. thank you both i enjoyed the read


Cheers Biggabit - I've spent the last couple of years thinking about the subject - after developing crushes on all four of the Japanese flagship superbikes I settled on the 06 Blade 1000rr as the bike for me.

Quote:
Now if only we could ride like feller


Wow - the rider and the bike did brilliantly beating that touring car - I would love to get some track tuition - to see what fast riding is really about without all the compromises that come with the road.


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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:21 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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I've got my first track day coming up in 3 weeks.
Just fitted a new set of tyres on SD ready for it. :)


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 Post Posted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:15 pm 
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True Horneteer
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knee_jerk wrote:
I've got my first track day coming up in 3 weeks.
Just fitted a new set of tyres on SD ready for it. :)


Excellent! Please report back! :D


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 Post Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 8:21 am 
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Hornet Lord
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Will do.
It's a small track, Llandow.
First ever track day and I've gone in the inter's group as I rate myself... :eek

... and because the novice group was already filled.
Please god of bikes, please keep my SD safe... :Pray


Last edited by knee_jerk on Mon May 28, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post Posted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:41 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Please god of bikes, please keep my SD safe... :Pray


lol - good luck! :angel


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 Post Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:29 pm 
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Hornet Toddler
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I ride a old big block air cooled four, it's over a litre, and it's slow by modern standards.

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It's a keeper

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 Post Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:49 am 
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John Travolta (Are you Dancin'?)

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You can juggle all the figures you want but at the end of the day its all about preference. I prefer a 1000 to a 600 as I like the sheer power of it and its more suitable for the roads around here...........now if I lived somewhere that was full of twisties then maybe I would prefer a 600.

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