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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Hi. As I took of my hornets forks, I was able to inspect the steering stem. The thing is that it is turning to freely to my mind, but the most important thing is that it “clicks in” in the middle dead center. I guess this asks for replacement of the bearings. Can anyone confirm that I shouldn’t drive a bike with this “click in”?
I have few questions regarding this upcoming job that will be trying to do by myself as the bike is already without the forks:
Hornet originally comes with ball bearings for the steering stem. All aftermarket bearings are roller bearings. So can anyone comment on this? Which ones should I go for?
Can I expect to manage this job without any special tools? Manual says that i have to have a special socket and tools for bearing races. Is there a way to improvise in this particular department?

Thanks in advance!

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 Post Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:43 pm 
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You can see my steering stem bearing replacement pics and comments here:

http://www.hondahornet.org.uk/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33203&p=289716#p289716

Regarding your questions;

Quote:
the most important thing is that it “clicks in” in the middle dead center. I guess this asks for replacement of the bearings. Can anyone confirm that I shouldn’t drive a bike with this “click in”?


Yes - the action of the bearings should be smooth with no clicking etc - if you are in any doubt about the state of the head bearings then refresh them, you are in an excellent position to do this job as you already have the forks off, so I would take this opportunity to replace the steering stem bearings.

Quote:
All aftermarket bearings are roller bearings. So can anyone comment on this?


Yes - the after market bearings all seems to be tapered roller bearings, the ones I bought from Ebay fitted perfectly.

Quote:
Can I expect to manage this job without any special tools? Manual says that i have to have a special socket and tools for bearing races. Is there a way to improvise in this particular department?


These are my observations on this question:

Removal of the locknut is officially done with a c-spanner but can easily achieved by carefully tapping it undone with a cold chisel/drift.

Removal of the steering stem lower inner race should be carried out with a cold chisel/drift and hammer - see my resto thread for pictures here; http://www.hondahornet.org.uk/messageboard/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=33203

Removal of the upper outer race located in the frame can be done with a block of wood or a cold chisel/drift.

Removal of the lower outer race is slightly trickier as it is more heavily recessed than the upper outer race and consequently is harder to strike with a chisel but it can be done with care - I bought a special tool for the job which you can see in my resto thread - but I think Biggabit used a tyre lever to remove the lower outer race - the shape was just right for this job - so you can improvise here as well without having to buy a special tool.

You can tap the new inner and outer races onto the steering stem and inside the steering head using the old races as drivers - again check out my resto thread - there are some pics and comments.

So in conclusion you can do this job without special tools - but you will need to take extra care not to damage the inside of the steering head when you are removing the lower outer race.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Not that I recommend this but saw a tip ages ago on some forum saying that take the races out, spin them 90 deg (one clockwise and then other anti clockwise) and stick them back in. Obv, this is only if all the balls are undamaged.

Basically, mis-align damaged area of the races and put the balls back in.

Ideally change to rollers.
I used a heel bar/drift and a hammer handle for the bottom race and just the drift for the top.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:20 pm 
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anz243k wrote:
Not that I recommend this but saw a tip ages ago on some forum saying that take the races out, spin them 90 deg (one clockwise and then other anti clockwise) and stick them back in. Obv, this is only if all the balls are undamaged.

Basically, mis-align damaged area of the races and put the balls back in.

Ideally change to rollers.
I used a heel bar/drift and a hammer handle for the bottom race and just the drift for the top.


Why anyone would refit worn races/ bearings... is beyond me.

Considering you've got to completely strip the front end down to access those races... you'd be a fool not to fit new races and bearings FFS ! :Bang

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 16, 2018 11:24 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Hi. As I took of my hornets forks, I was able to inspect the steering stem. The thing is that it is turning to freely to my mind, but the most important thing is that it “clicks in” in the middle dead center. I guess this asks for replacement of the bearings. Can anyone confirm that I shouldn’t drive a bike with this “click in”?
I have few questions regarding this upcoming job that will be trying to do by myself as the bike is already without the forks:
Hornet originally comes with ball bearings for the steering stem. All aftermarket bearings are roller bearings. So can anyone comment on this? Which ones should I go for?
Can I expect to manage this job without any special tools? Manual says that i have to have a special socket and tools for bearing races. Is there a way to improvise in this particular department?

Thanks in advance!



You may find article helpful. :)

Part two

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 2:45 pm 
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Biggabit wrote:
anz243k wrote:
Not that I recommend this but saw a tip ages ago on some forum saying that take the races out, spin them 90 deg (one clockwise and then other anti clockwise) and stick them back in. Obv, this is only if all the balls are undamaged.

Basically, mis-align damaged area of the races and put the balls back in.

Ideally change to rollers.
I used a heel bar/drift and a hammer handle for the bottom race and just the drift for the top.


Why anyone would refit worn races/ bearings... is beyond me.

Considering you've got to completely strip the front end down to access those races... you'd be a fool not to fit new races and bearings FFS ! :Bang

cost? misinformation?

When we had our chinese 125, it once failed an MOT on steering head bearings. We knew jack all about bikes (and those kinda bearings were new to me) and my brother is less mechanically inclined so he did what the workshop told him to do.
Workshop told him to put new ball bearings in and that would sort it. It did, so it passed the MOT.


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 4:52 pm 
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C'mon guys - let's not fall out over a lot of balls . . . :angel


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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 6:37 pm 
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HOON98 wrote:
C'mon guys - let's not fall out over a lot of balls . . . :angel


I'm cool Hoon :D

I just don't understand it. given the low cost of a new set of bearings and the time and effort required to strip down then rebuild the front end.

:rollin

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:43 pm 
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Biggabit wrote:
HOON98 wrote:
C'mon guys - let's not fall out over a lot of balls . . . :angel


I'm cool Hoon :D

I just don't understand it. given the low cost of a new set of bearings and the time and effort required to strip down then rebuild the front end.

:rollin


Yeah - I had a similar conundrum earlier this week - I was just checking that I had everything ready for the fork rebuild and was going through the parts list to see if I had missed anything and then noticed by chance that the small rebound damper springs that go at the bottom of the fork were really cheap at only 4 quid each - I was really surprised as I assumed they would be about 20/30 quid each which seems to be the going rate for any original Honda part bigger than a nut or washer - so I thought why not replace them as well as they are so cheap? After all I'm fitting brand new linear springs so it would seem a bit silly not to renew the rebound springs which have done 45/50k miles as well for the sake of ten quid?

Chances are it's not strictly necessary to renew the rebound springs as the range of movement and stresses they experience is possibly much smaller than the main spring but I couldn't be arsed wasting time finding out for the sake of ten quid and just ordered them anyway (although on the downside it will hold up the fork rebuild by a few days while I wait for them to arrive in the post).


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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:51 am 
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Biggabit wrote:
HOON98 wrote:
C'mon guys - let's not fall out over a lot of balls . . . :angel


I'm cool Hoon :D

I just don't understand it. given the low cost of a new set of bearings and the time and effort required to strip down then rebuild the front end.

:rollin

haha

I'm with you. Thats why I changed mine on the hornet when I was swapping forks.

I was just explaining what we did when we didn't know what we were doing.


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 Post Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:51 pm 
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anz243k wrote:
Biggabit wrote:
HOON98 wrote:
C'mon guys - let's not fall out over a lot of balls . . . :angel


I'm cool Hoon :D

I just don't understand it. given the low cost of a new set of bearings and the time and effort required to strip down then rebuild the front end.

:rollin

haha

I'm with you. Thats why I changed mine on the hornet when I was swapping forks.

I was just explaining what we did when we didn't know what we were doing.


I know... all's good :)

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 2:34 pm 
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Hi guys. Seems like a big discussion is going on. :) Thanks for all the tips and links to look at. To sum it up, I've ordered tapered roller bearings from All Balls and now am waiting for them to arrive together with a fork rebuild kit. I feel confident about the top bearing race, but i have a lot of doubts regarding the bottom one. I was not able to find a pry bar small and long enough for this job to buy, so I am afraid I will end up buying a new inner bearing puller tool. It's 17 EUR here. Are you sure I will not be able to catch an edge of the inner race with just a flat screwdriver?

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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 3:00 pm 
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Quote:
Are you sure I will not be able to catch an edge of the inner race with just a flat screwdriver?


I think you could do it - but the protruding edge of the lower outer race felt as little as 2mm when I ran my finger around it, it also sits inside a shallow 'bell shaped' recess which complicates access further - you would have to be very careful to ensure that you do not mark or scratch the inside of the steering stem in my opinion - which is why I decided to save myself the sweat and go the nice, easy relaxing route with the race removal tool.


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 Post Posted: Fri Jan 19, 2018 10:43 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Hi guys. Seems like a big discussion is going on. :) Thanks for all the tips and links to look at. To sum it up, I've ordered tapered roller bearings from All Balls and now am waiting for them to arrive together with a fork rebuild kit. I feel confident about the top bearing race, but i have a lot of doubts regarding the bottom one. I was not able to find a pry bar small and long enough for this job to buy, so I am afraid I will end up buying a new inner bearing puller tool. It's 17 EUR here. Are you sure I will not be able to catch an edge of the inner race with just a flat screwdriver?


The bottom race is easily removed using the correct tool or a DIY tool (Basically a bar of metal with a slight bend at one end to clear the steering stem bulge...I used a tyre lever as the drift which worked a treat.

One of thems...
Image

The races in the frame are easy enough but the one on the tipple tree can be problematic.

Here's how i tackled mine when i for a set of 2000+ yokes (Noticeably better handling now.)

and preloading the tapered bearing bit at

All the best :)

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Hoon, when you used your old bearind races to drive in the new ones, hiw did you take out them after the job? It loooks like that they also go in a few milimeters.

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:26 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Hoon, when you used your old bearind races to drive in the new ones, hiw did you take out them after the job? It loooks like that they also go in a few milimeters.



Forgive me for interjecting... :angel

I was also worried about seating the old races while using them as drifts.... so cut them and the steering stem race.

The slot will shut if you squeeze them hard but will spring open again. (Hardened steel has very good spring properties) Image

Slightly oiled and stored in a little zip bag ready for future use.
Image

Those little go through hardened steel races like a knife through butter.

:)

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 5:42 pm 
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Great idea! Did the same thing with old oil seals to drive the new ones to the fork body. Don't know why didn't thiught about this in this case. :)

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Great idea! Did the same thing with old oil seals to drive the new ones to the fork body. Don't know why didn't thiught about this in this case. :)


The pre-cut frame races were easily removed by hand alone but the pre-cut triple tree race needed the use of a screw driver in its slot to remove it.

From the other thread.

The old race used to drift on the new tapered bearing seated itself on the stems shoulder, this was easily released turning a screw driver in the pre cut section. :Pray
Image

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 Post Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2018 9:21 pm 
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Hi Xmixerx,

From what I remember it wasn't a problem.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 9:15 am 
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Hey, Guys,

While waiting for my new tapered steering bearings to arrive I am reading about the adjusting procedures and I still find some things unclear. For instance this article (http://armchairbiker.com/honda-hornet-s ... al-how-to/) says that while doing the steering bearings adjustment, the top yoke should not be removed. I find this unbelievable as the top yoke covers the adjusting nut an lock nut fully as far as I remember. So after all, how do you do the adjusting after all is replaced and reassembled and you find out that the bearings need a bit more of adjustment?

Sorry, if you find this question silly, but I am the one of a kind that reads all the things I can read before attempting something. :)

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 Post Posted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 6:34 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Hey, Guys,

While waiting for my new tapered steering bearings to arrive I am reading about the adjusting procedures and I still find some things unclear. For instance this article (http://armchairbiker.com/honda-hornet-s ... al-how-to/) says that while doing the steering bearings adjustment, the top yoke should not be removed. I find this unbelievable as the top yoke covers the adjusting nut an lock nut fully as far as I remember. So after all, how do you do the adjusting after all is replaced and reassembled and you find out that the bearings need a bit more of adjustment?

Sorry, if you find this question silly, but I am the one of a kind that reads all the things I can read before attempting something. :)


The armchair biker article does seem to 'over complicate' the final adjustment.

I followed the advice/method given in which worked a treat :)

Preloading the tapered bearing bit at

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 Post Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Great stuff Biggabit - I'll be checking that out as I haven't got round to the adjustment stage yet. :D


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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 9:47 am 
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Thanks. Will be trying to do the job this weekend. :)

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 10:43 am 
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It was a long saturday. Preloading the bearings was a PITA for me. After 16 atempts, i've managed it. Thanks for all the help guys.
Looking forward to the season now. :)
Image
Image
Image
Image

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Well done man :clap

Is that original paint on those forks? :love

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Biggabit wrote:
Well done man :clap

Is that original paint on those forks? :love


Your hint to cut the old races was a great idea.
I am not realy sure about the paint, but it looks like original though. Just for interest, why are you asking?

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Xmixerx wrote:
Biggabit wrote:
Well done man :clap

Is that original paint on those forks? :love


Your hint to cut the old races was a great idea.
I am not realy sure about the paint, but it looks like original though. Just for interest, why are you asking?



Fork envy :love

They appear to be in great condition.

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 Post Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Biggabit wrote:
Xmixerx wrote:
Biggabit wrote:
Well done man :clap

Is that original paint on those forks? :love


Your hint to cut the old races was a great idea.
I am not realy sure about the paint, but it looks like original though. Just for interest, why are you asking?


Fork envy :love

They appear to be in great condition.


Thanks. I do hope they will perform after a rebuild as good as they look. :)

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