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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Hornet Warrior
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Hi all. Some of you might remember me as ‘99 600 hornet owner. I’ve sold it. Thought I am going to go for Africa Twin. Unfortunately, a thought about paying 3500€ for a 25 year old bike was giving me nightmares. At the end reasonable mind won a war with the heart and it seems I am back into hornet’s nest. :)
What I am after is a PC41 Hornet. And I am actually have an offer to discuss with you guys. I would really appreciate your insights.
You will find some pictures in the below link of a Hornet I am being offered. The thing is that it is a fallen bike and I can evaluate the prices for repairing it. The pictures are showing everything that had a direct contact with the road surface. However, what bothers me is the things that cannot be seen. Here it goes:

1. Are those back handles (or rails) detachable?

2. What happens with the oil supply, when the bike is on it’s side? I am afraid that it could be lacking of lubrication due to the oil pump inability to reach the oil? Is this a reasonable thought?

3. My brother's dirt bike has a sensor that cuts ignition after it detects the bike is not vertical anymore. If PC41 has this function, then my second question loses its point.

4. I also notice that a scratch on the handlebar weight (or slider) doesn't align with the scratches on the rubber grip, which means that during the slide the throttle was open more than it would be on idle. This even exaggerates my phobia of connecting rods starving oil. Any input on this?

5. I am also afraid of bent forks or yokes. Is this possible with this kind of lowside?

6. Is the frame strong enough to not give a $h!t towards this drop?

All in all the bike is in very good and groomed condition. It has only 20000 km (12500 miles). I could just change the oil, filter, hop on and ride. The price would be 2600€ (~2300 GBP).

I don't expect you to make a decision for me. I would be happy if you were able to give some answers or insight on the previous questions. An overall honest opinion on this whole “project” would also be very valued. :)

The pictures:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/wVnjQBUwY31C7yYi7

Thanks in advance.

P.S. The muffler is not a question - to be changed anyways. :)
P.P.S. Or should i get back to Africa Twin? :)

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:28 am 
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True Horneteer
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It looks in very good shape - Assuming it starts and runs and sounds ok then go for it.

It has very low mileage - after taking a look at some of the prices on Autotrader you would have to spend up to 1200 GBP or more on top of the asking price to get an undamaged example of this bike - so you will be getting a bargain - are the crankcase covers, fork lowers and brake calipers on the right hand (crash) side of the bike ok? As it will be less of a bargain if you have to replace a damaged right hand side fork/caliper/disc/crank case cover which are not shown in the pics - however it looks like only the RHS bar end touched down and will have hopefully kept the RHS of the bike propped up and away from the road.

Quote:
1. Are those back handles (or rails) detachable?


I don't know this model of Hornet but I expect they come off - you don't need to replace the grab rail though - just buy a tube of JB weld and replace the scraped alloy and then sand it back to it's original contours and respray it.

Quote:
3. My brother's dirt bike has a sensor that cuts ignition after it detects the bike is not vertical anymore. If PC41 has this function, then my second question loses its point.


This bike has a tip over sensor so it should have cut out before any damage to the engine could occur.

Quote:
4. I also notice that a scratch on the handlebar weight (or slider) doesn't align with the scratches on the rubber grip, which means that during the slide the throttle was open more than it would be on idle. This even exaggerates my phobia of connecting rods starving oil. Any input on this?


Even if the revs had momentarily gone up I doubt the engine will have been on long enough for any damage to occur due to the tip over sensor cutting the engine out. I had a similar crash to this on my 1998 Hornet and the engine cut out as soon as the bike went down.

Quote:
5. I am also afraid of bent forks or yokes. Is this possible with this kind of lowside?


No - not enough lateral force (if any) to bend the forks in a low side - unless the bikes front tire bounced off a kerb stone or other solid object during the slide (which it doesn't look like it did) then the forks will be straight.

Quote:
6. Is the frame strong enough to not give a $h!t towards this drop?


The frame will be fine in this type and severity of crash and will have no damage - total write offs due to cracked/distorted headstock/frames tend to happen after heavy frontal impacts - the crash this bike experienced was very minor in comparison - from the pics it looks like an easy damage repairable - not a legal write off.

Quote:
P.P.S. Or should i get back to Africa Twin?


The Africa Twin is an iconic bike with a cult following - but if you are not planning on going off road then the Hornet is a massively superior road bike in terms of performance and enjoyment to the Africa Twin - obviously on rough roads, dirt tracks etc it is a completely different story.

I've been looking for a salvage/write off project for a while now and there have been bikes in much worse shape than this that I have considered buying - bikes with bent forks and ripped off lights, fairings and radiators which have been officially classified as damage repairable and not total write offs (in the UK a total write off with a bent or cracked frame can only be sold to a professional breaker with the right documentation and not to ordinary members of the public).

In comparison to many of the bikes I have been looking at this bike has only light damage and would be classed as an easy and economically viable repair for a private buyer (assuming that right hand side fork/caliper/engine case is ok - but even if there was damage here the bike is still a viable repair - but any savings made would obviously diminish with the costs of replacing the RHS fork/caliper etc - hopefully this is not the case and these components survived the low side unscathed.


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:44 am 
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Hornet Toddler

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The frame should be ok.


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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:18 am 
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Hornet Warrior
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Thanks a lot HOON98 for a clear and detailed input. In fact, all the parts that were damaged during the low side are seen in the pictures. The bike had crash bungs, so the right one spared the calipers, engine covers and thing like that. All the damage is seen in the pics - if you don't see a pic of a part, it means that part is intact.
By the way, I see some strange color under the black - looks like brass or gold one. Could it be it's previous color (was it repainted?) or is it just some kind of primer?
So to conclude, I see that you are leaning towards "go for it" side... :)
I will have another chat with the seller and see how we can arrange things.

Stutz, I hope you are right. :)

P.S. A news that the bike has a tip over sensor made me way more relaxed here.

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 Post Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:50 am 
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True Horneteer
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Yeah - this bike looks in great shape - the damage is cosmetic and it shouldn't take much work/money to make it look A1 again.

Buy it and spend the 1200 quid you saved on petrol, tyres, brake pads and chains :D

Doubt it's been resprayed - looks like an honest bike that has just had a minor low side.

I see much, much worse condition bikes than this sold as viable damaged repairables.


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 Post Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:19 pm 
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That bike looks like it has been upside down (or squeeze in an odd way); check the damage to the top of the brake lever ball and the two throttle cable adjusters.
The (OEM) exhaust would be costly to replace.
Nobody can say the frame/forks are okay from those pictures alone.

If you've riden and like the AT - go for that, the AT is an abolute hoot (watch your points though). A modern AT beats the pants off the (600) hornet 8 days a week.

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:29 am 
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True Horneteer
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Quote:
That bike looks like it has been upside down


How so? The damage is perfectly consistent with a minor low side.

Blow up the picture and there is no damage to the clocks, master cylinder, switch gear, bars or the top of the tank - which would occur if it had flipped over.

Quote:
The (OEM) exhaust would be costly to replace


He's gonna go after market.

Quote:
Nobody can say the frame/forks are okay from those pictures alone.


Mate - that's obviously a minor low side - not a head on or a shunt - the frame and forks are fine.

Quote:
A modern AT beats the pants off the (600) hornet 8 days a week.


He's talking about the original 25 year old Africa Twin which on tarmac would not beat a modern, fuel injected, CBR derived Hornet 8 days a week.


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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Victor Meldrew
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Quote:
Mate - that's obviously a minor low side - not a head on or a shunt - the frame and forks are fine


Dangerous things, assumptions. Yes, on balance frame and forks are probably absolutely fine, but no way of being certain without an alignment check. When I was knocked off my Hornet by a truck driver ( he nudged my shoulder, didn't hit the bike ), the bike only slide a few feet down the road, at less than 30mph. The insurance paid out to repair the bike, after it had been checked over by Motoliner, and certificate of 'straightness' issued.

And then there's that alloy frame on the new Hornets, does it need testing for cracks ?

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 Post Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:55 pm 
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True Horneteer
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Quote:
Dangerous things, assumptions. Yes, on balance frame and forks are probably absolutely fine


Exactly - which is why if after a physical inspection of the bike (including starting it up) it's condition tallied with the impression I got from the pictures I would not be going on assumptions and would be more than happy to save myself 1200 quid and buy this bike.

We have both been around bikes long enough to spot the difference between a bike which has had a relatively benevolent and easily fixable slide down the road and one which has bounced off a kerbstone or cartwheeled down the road.

I slid my own Hornet down the road after some bugger u turned in front of me and ended up with damage very similar to this bike - my Helmet was a write off and my jacket was ripped but seeing as it was 11pm at night and I was forty miles from home I just picked it up, got it started after a few splutters and rode it home - damage included scraped engine, bent brake lever, slightly bent bars, etc - but nothing that couldn't easily be put right.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 12:01 am 
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One extra thing to look out for Ximerx;

Check the condition of the crash bung it went down on and that the strut it is bolted onto is straight and not bent or cracked.


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 Post Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 10:54 pm 
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Hornet Lord
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HOON98 wrote:
....I slid my own Hornet down the road after some bugger u turned in front of me and ended up with damage very similar to this bike - my Helmet was a write off and my jacket was ripped but seeing as it was 11pm at night and I was forty miles from home I just picked it up, got it started after a few splutters and rode it home - damage included scraped engine, bent brake lever, slightly bent bars, etc - but nothing that couldn't easily be put right.


So when you slid yours down the road you rashed the TOP of the brake lever (ball) and caught the TOP of the throttle cable adjusters did you ?
Odd.

I still think that has been squeezed somewhere it didn't fit.

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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:01 am 
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Quote:
So when you slid yours down the road you rashed the TOP of the brake lever (ball) and caught the TOP of the throttle cable adjusters did you ?
Odd.


Damage is not consistent with it flipping over.

Quote:
I still think that has been squeezed somewhere it didn't fit.


Ok - apologies - I've sinced edited this to be more polite

I have a bad hang over from last night and should be extra careful to not be rude or flippant :angel

Where is it showing evidence of being 'squeezed'


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:15 am 
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Quote:
caught the TOP of the throttle cable adjusters


The bar end, cable adjusters and brake lever touched the tarmac and have simply twisted round as it was sliding - not as a result of anything more drastic.


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 Post Posted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:22 pm 
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At least Ximerx has got both ends of the spectrum in terms of opinions :angel - as neither of us will ever be able to physically inspect this bike the ball is in Ximerx's court now.


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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:11 pm 
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Hornet Warrior
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Thank you guys for all the input here. I didn't have a good chance to follow this topic the past few days. As this bike is still in Italy, I am waiting for the guy to bring it here to my country and i will definitely do a test drive and general inspection. The price is a bargain, as we all agree. If i can drive it hands if the bar and it will not require any additional effort to keep it straight, I will make an assumption it's straight. And if that's it I think I will take it. :)

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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:18 pm 
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Nice one Xmixerx - let us know what happens :D


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