Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ

Board index » Hornet 600/599 » Mechanical & Electrical




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:17 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
Hi everyone,

Disclaimer: I am a noob when it comes to electrics and need advice!

So my bike has this issue of rough running (misfire?) When the headlights are on. Last week the bike died completely on me when I pulled clutch in at the lights and had to keep rpm insanely high just to get home. Looked a right tw*t.

I checked the voltage after a full charge (no load) and got 13.1v. Great. Engine running it was pretty similar and with the lights on it was <13v. Ok so battery's not charging...

I put it down to a faulty reg/rec which I've now replaced yesterday (cheap one off eBay). Done same tests and getting back 14-14.5v under load.

Riding to work today I switched the headlights on but it still seems to be missing. If I go WOT in any gear it seems to grumble a bit before picking up speed. Rides like a dream without lights.

Bike is always stored outside and I've ridden all through winter (rain, snow, ice, the lot). Hasn't been sat for long periods. Problems started after the first load of snow this season. So my questions (and I'm sorry if they seem stupid!). Has the winter killed the battery? Is a new battery susceptible to a better charge from the reg/rec? I've read it could be a "dodgy earth" but where exactly will I need to look for that? In my right handlebar switch?

Looking forward to getting this bike running smooth ready for spring!

Thanks for taking time to read!

Lee


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:24 pm 
Offline
Knob Magnet
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 9572
Location: Catterick, North Yorkshire
how old is your battery?
have you checked the 3 way connector block (three yellow wires)between the stator and Reg/rec?

_________________

370Steve


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:44 pm 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Sounds like a dodgy earth mate - on my 98 bike the main earth connects to the frame behind the reg/rect - it's on the same circuit as the lights.

You might want to check the condition of the contacts/wiring at this point (as Steve says), give it a clean if it looks damp and dirty or replace the connection if it looks corroded.

Regarding the battery - if you check it with a multimeter (engine off and meter set to DC 20 volt range) you should be looking for:

12.60v - 100% charge
12.40v - 75% charge
12.10v - 50% charge
11.90v - 25% charge
11.80v or less - 0% charge


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 3:50 pm 
Offline
Hornet Baby
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2016 6:39 pm
Posts: 29
Location: Lower Saxony, Germany
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that the regulator/rectifier has died. This is a common issue. While the engine is running, the voltage should be at least 14V.
In my opinion, you should go for a used part which is available (at least over here) from 12GBP.
Be sure to keep the mounting surface clean.

_________________
Cheers,
Michael

1998 CB600F PC34
2003 CB900F SC48
2001 CB500S PC32
1981 XL185S L185S


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 4:03 pm 
Offline
Johnny English

Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 2:34 pm
Posts: 1407
Location: Somerset
corrosion !!

The lovely " SALT SNOW SLUSH SOUP " we have had lately has eaten its way into your bike

As Hoon says , could be the earth corroded , but could be anywhere , check all cables and connectors , one by one

_________________
919


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 6:10 pm 
Offline
Knob Magnet
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 9572
Location: Catterick, North Yorkshire
Flyingbrick wrote:
Hi,
I'm pretty sure that the regulator/rectifier has died. This is a common issue. While the engine is running, the voltage should be at least 14V.


Quote:
a faulty reg/rec which I've now replaced yesterday (cheap one off eBay). Done same tests and getting back 14-14.5v


so i am not convinced that the Reg/rec is shot! usually when they go you get one of two things happen

1) they over charge the battery causing it to boil dry or split (regulator fails to regulate)
2) they dont charge at all (regulator fails to allow any charge)

normally caused by the burning out of a small diode in the reg/rec, which leaves a burned area on the front of the reg/rec.

_________________

370Steve


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:46 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
First off, thanks all for the quick responses.

370steve wrote:
how old is your battery?
have you checked the 3 way connector block (three yellow wires)between the stator and Reg/rec?


Owned the bike 7 months, not sure how long the battery was in there before I bought it though. Yep, checked that connector block, no issues there.

HOON98 wrote:
Sounds like a dodgy earth mate - on my 98 bike the main earth connects to the frame behind the reg/rect - it's on the same circuit as the lights.

You might want to check the condition of the contacts/wiring at this point


Is this the green cable that literally connects to the frame with one of the same bolts which holds the RR in place? I didn't know that was the main earth lead, but anyways, yes, I've cleaned that up with wd40 and steel wool back to shine. Was previously a bit corroded.

Flyingbrick wrote:
I'm pretty sure that the regulator/rectifier has died.


That was my first thought, so it's now brand new and getting 14-14.5v charge.

paulh0rnet wrote:
corrosion !!

The lovely " SALT SNOW SLUSH SOUP " we have had lately has eaten its way into your bike

As Hoon says , could be the earth corroded , but could be anywhere , check all cables and connectors , one by one


I do reckon that a load of the sh*t off the recent slushy roads has found its way into the bikes nooks and crannies and probably corroded terminals I have yet to find!

Will start with a full fresh trickle charge and if still no joy begin the hunt for the elusive "dodgy earth"!

Thanks all, will keep you posted


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:33 am 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Quote:
Is this the green cable that literally connects to the frame with one of the same bolts which holds the RR in place? I didn't know that was the main earth lead, but anyways, yes, I've cleaned that up with wd40 and steel wool back to shine. Was previously a bit corroded.


Yep, that's the one.

You say it died when you pulled the clutch in? Check the condition of the clutch switch and wiring - if it's badly corroded or covered in crap it could be causing an issue - while your at it open up the clams on the handlebars containg the light switches etc - give them a squirt with contact cleaner and clean the the contacts up if they look dirty.

As said above - do a check of your major connections and earths (check the wiring diagram).

As Paul says - during winter riding salty, corrosive water gets jet washed into the bikes electrics and causes the kind of problems you are describing - I'm planning on giving my connectors and switches a coating of silicone spray to provide a bit of protection against water and damp next time I'm working on the electrics.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:34 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
HOON98 wrote:
You say it died when you pulled the clutch in? Check the condition of the clutch switch and wiring - if it's badly corroded or covered in crap it could be causing an issue - while your at it open up the clams on the handlebars containg the light switches etc - give them a squirt with contact cleaner and clean the the contacts up if they look dirty.


Only due to the revs dropping low and badly misfiring was it cutting out. Same when I was just sitting in neutral. Battery is fully charged now at 13.1v. and charging voltage a hearty 14.5v... except this headlight business. Soon as they go on charging goes down to 12.5v.

Tomorrow that tanks coming right back off again and I'm finding that dodgy earth. It HAS to be that.

While I'm at it I'll take the right handlebar switch apart for a clean. If that throttle cable's as fiddly as the choke cable to reassemble I know it's gonna be a right ball ache.

Until then I'll stick to good old no-lights daytime riding! :)


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:50 pm 
Offline
Knob Magnet
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 05, 2006 9:38 pm
Posts: 9572
Location: Catterick, North Yorkshire
see if you can borrow a known good battery 8o

_________________

370Steve


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:37 am 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Quote:
Only due to the revs dropping low and badly misfiring was it cutting out. Same when I was just sitting in neutral. Battery is fully charged now at 13.1v. and charging voltage a hearty 14.5v... except this headlight business. Soon as they go on charging goes down to 12.5v.


Yeah - you possibly have corrosion at the positive side of the headlamp wiring circuit or at the earth to frame - hence the voltage drop when the lights go on - if it's a problem at the positive side of the headlight wiring circuit then it could be due to a dirty or corroded set of connectors/wiring at the headlamp to loom connector block (on my bike the connector block is stored inside the headlamp) - or it could be frayed wiring either at the connector block or around the headstock - the wiring loom at the headstock can become worn due to the 'sawing' action of the handlebars on the loom at this point.

Check out this article on testing for voltage drops from 'Popular Mechanics' - it describes in detail how to identify the cause of headlight related voltage drops by testing the earth and positive side of the problem circuit as I described above (it's for cars but the principles involved are exactly the same for bikes):

https://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/how-to/a4246/4314662/


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:39 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
370steve wrote:
see if you can borrow a known good battery


Unfortunately this is a bit tricky for me!

Meanwhile, today I've taken the tank off (again) and cleaned literally every wiring connector block in sight (unclip, wd40/steel wool, clip and unclip a few times) plus cleaned the earth point behind the RR again for good measure.

Then moved to fuse box... I've removed all the fuses just to give them a clean and one was corroded to the point it broke on removal. The second one from the front of bike (I think this is the one for sidelights/indicators).

Question, can a corroded fuse (not blown) cause similar symptoms? i.e. by not properly closing the circuit?

I've bought some more today on the way to work, not had time to reassemble bike for testing, that's a job for the morning.

HOON98 wrote:
Yeah - you possibly have corrosion at the positive side of the headlamp wiring circuit or at the earth to frame - hence the voltage drop when the lights go on - if it's a problem at the positive side of the headlight wiring circuit then it could be due to a dirty or corroded set of connectors/wiring at the headlamp to loom connector block


The inside of my headlamp is a bit of a mess for wiring. Whoever installed the led lights have soldered all the earth terminals together and used different coloured wires.. although the soldering looks solid so I've cleaned and retaped up.

Thanks for that link too, I'll give that a read and report back how tomorrow goes now all my connections are "clean"


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 12:42 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
So after putting it all back together I still have the same problems :Bang

It's funny though, the more I investigate, the more bodged electrics I'm finding from previous owners. Until I checked the manual's headlight diagram, I didn't realise there were supposed to be so many connectors inside. I have none! I have a headlight/sidelight bulb holder and couple of indicator connectors, but all the handlebar switch connectors seem to just bypass the headlight housing and disappear into the main harness. Also the black/green wire from earthing point to the temp guage (I think) has snapped and been recrimped and taped previously.

Anyway, I checked for continuity from the headlight socket to battery and that checks out so I think that's good (?)

Also, this problem has become more apparent since switching headlight bulb to a standard h4 (55/65w I think). The previous one was led, and although bright to look at, it didn't light up the road enough for me to see where I was going in the dark. With the led installed the voltage drop is non existent.

Will try a couple of suggestions from that article, which is great reading. Failing that I'm giving up and asking the guys at the garage to have a look when it goes in for MOT in a couple of weeks!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:25 am 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Yeah - If the loom has been butchered by some bodger then chances are the circuit isn't earthed properly and God knows what else regarding fuses etc.

If it's as badly rewired as it sounds then you could purchase a complete unmolested loom from a breakers via Ebay and install that - which will save you the time and hassle of attempting to reconfigure back to normal the existing wiring.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:30 am 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Quote:
Will try a couple of suggestions from that article, which is great reading.


The 'Popular Mechanics' article is a good theoretical primer on the subject but to get better practical advice on how to actually test and locate the problems described there are some good Youtube videos out there - if you search youtube for 'testing for parasitic drain' or 'testing for earth' you should get some helpful advice.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:20 pm 
Offline
Victor Meldrew
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:51 pm
Posts: 5011
Location: Worcester
Quote:
Until I checked the manual's headlight diagram, I didn't realise there were supposed to be so many connectors inside. I have none! I have a headlight/sidelight bulb holder and couple of indicator connectors, but all the handlebar switch connectors seem to just bypass the headlight housing and disappear into the main harness.


When I changed my '99 headlight for the later twin bulb unit I found that there was no way the original loom and connectors would fit into the new headlight shell. The 'computer designed' reflector pretty much fills the headlight shell.

I got around this problem by shoving the displaced wiring into sections of bicycle inner tube, secured with cable ties, all tucked away behind the headlight. I have a small handle bar mounted fairing which conceals the clutter.

I guess folks with Speed Triple / Dominator style lights face the same problem.

_________________
And then one day you find
Ten years have got behind you
No one told you when to run
You missed the starting gun


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2018 7:21 pm 
Offline
Darwin Award winner 2016

Joined: Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:26 pm
Posts: 996
You could always ask this feller for some advice... he's uploaded a number of 'wiring videos' and seems to know his stuff.

'Electrics' are not Honda's forte The real shocker being at :rollin
:)

_________________
60th cog in the Gear Driven Cam Appreciation Society.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:51 am 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
Thank you all for taking the time to reply and offer suggestions.

I YouTube'd those videos (yea YouTube is a verb now) on parasitic drain but I'm all good on that front. And after seeing that latest video... Well the day my wiring harness is on a bed will be the day I buy a new bike :rollin

But it was pretty shocking to see all that splicing and taping, just shows that problems could be anywhere!

I think I'll also take some advice regarding the bicycle inner tubes and cover over the relocated headlight connector blocks, which are all tucked under my tank somewhere!

Now waiting for time off work and sunshine to get tank off again!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:31 pm 
Offline
Newbie

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2017 6:23 pm
Posts: 14
SOLVED:

So bike went in for MOT the other day and thought I'd mention the issue. Turns out the misfire was actually caused by a faulty coil (perhaps the headlight power was just drawing more attention to the misfire?)

Now although my testing with a multimeter showed all the right numbers, the actual coil itself was sometimes missing, sometimes firing... Literally hit and miss. It would occasionally arc outside of the coil and short to the frame :eek

Never ran the engine with the tank off the bike but after watching the garages video I ordered new coils and it's back to running just fine.

Thanks again all!


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Electrical issue
 Post Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2018 5:58 pm 
Offline
Needs to get out more!
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:08 am
Posts: 1280
Location: In The Garage
Nice one - an intermittent fault on a coil would be hard to diagnose - the MOT guy must be a decent mechanic to assess the issue so quickly.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 20 posts ] 

Board index » Hornet 600/599 » Mechanical & Electrical


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: